swapnil: Hey everyone.

mukul: This is Mukul

swapnil: And this is Swapnil.

mukul: welcome to going slow podcast,
where we discuss our product journeys.

swapnil: And also have casual
discussions around life universe

and everything in between.

mukul: Hello?

Hello.

Welcome to episode 13
of going slow podcast.

Hey, how's it going?

swapnil: Yeah, everything is pretty good.

Where do you I'll pass you over?

You.

mukul: Yeah, it was pretty decent.

It was mostly relaxing.

There was definitely some high
priority work we had to do,

but it was not stressful.

So the, it was pretty well balanced.

So we are now starting to focusing
a lot on with other apps to have

a deeper integration, with apps.

So yeah, I mean, there were mostly
discussions around those terms

and we'll be looking forward
to have more in the future.

swapnil: Interesting.

Can you go deeper into one
of those integrations that it

mukul: Yeah.

Yeah.

So like I'll give you a simple example.

For example our app is appointment
booking, like appointment

booking app in Shopify.

when someone uses our app, they
can take for their product.

So for example, if you're
selling like yoga classes some

consultation, they can use an app
to But make some times available.

Charged for it and have reminders,
confirmation signed for them.

So, there are a few integrations
we are looking for to do.

One is very simple.

It's with the app,
which does subscription.

So for example, there are many apps
in Shopify, which does subscriptions.

So for example, if you undertake like
coffee subscription, so every Monday

you get five coffee delivered to you
and they will charge you like $50,

$60 per month, something like that.

So our first integration, I would say.

Appointment subscription.

So for example, if what if you
have, you will have recurring

appointments by a 0.2 a recurring
subscription buy that subscription app.

And there's two apps.

We'll talk with each other we'll make sure
that if customer is a subscriber, then

he will receive recurring appointments.

So, Yeah.

that's like the basic test of
integration we are working with.

Trying to our app's functionality and
a way, trying to acquire users like I

would say trying to acquire, trying to
increase the funnel for acquisition.

Like currently we get a lot of
customers from Shopify app store, it

will be like a small increase in funnel
where we are using the subscription.

And if you are looking forward
to take appointment subscription,

then you can do that to that flow.

swapnil: Got it.

I knew.

How does the partnership work?

Like what do you get?

What do they.

mukul: It's same, like for example,
the we are getting is like deeper

integration with the app, like,
a relationship to start with.

Like for example, we are in
discussion with other apps.

So there is like partnership.

And there's also like co-marketing
things like we, in our blog post

we'll have some written for them.

And in their blog blog posts, they.

will have something written for us.

it's like a partnership kind of thing.

Also a chance to, I would say, grow
your app, like increase the apps, but.

So that you could say that, Hey, we'd
not only just give this, but we also

have some extensive functionalities.

And also it helps in like
the funnel of increasing the

funnel for user acquisition.

swapnil: Okay.

And like, do like share revenue.

mukul: No, but we don't share revenue.

So.

I think it's totally optional.

You don't have to share and stuff.

It's mostly I would say
based on the presence.

So for example, our appointment app
appoint two has like around 90 reviews.

So it shows that that app has
been in business for a long

time and it's doing good.

It's five stars.

It's why you started it.

So it shows that it has a.

Whole ecosystem place, like
support app and all those things.

So it brings, it builds that and
then you can with other apps and then

it also increases that reputation
in that way, like, Hey, like this

have partner with this other app.

So like a win-win and also.

swapnil: Yeah, I think this
is pretty cool to get out.

So you like building trust with
every new integration that you do.

mukul: It's just yes.

Yes.

Building trust building.

I would say professional
relationship with other partners.

So yeah, I would, I don't think it.

has like a instant return.

like a long, long game.

swapnil: Yeah.

Yeah.

And be loud long.

Yeah.

So I guess pretty good.

mukul: Yeah.

I mean it's more like you had done
everything to have those instant gains.

Now, like have like now done everything
you can get those instant things you

want, like whatever features you can build
to increase this, to have that kind of

subscription you have built at now, next
is like, what makes now next is doing

those long-term things, will be often.

Which may or may not be off
in long-term side, it's it's

my, it must be similar, right?

Like your trial, 10, 20 different
things, and actually only one or two

of those work and 18 of those fields.

something like that.

swapnil: Yeah, very true.

The long-term thing is pretty spot and
I can relate to it with our team is.

The last week.

So like this week, the hide, the lowest
meetings ever in any week so far.

And I think the majority of that can we
attribute it to the fact that now the

team has like full context of everything?

So of course, initially it
felt like we talked a lot.

To share the context around the
problem that they're solving.

But with time now that turns us
sort of paying off with every team

member is doing things on their own.

And yeah, I think this is again
like a long-term game, the dancer

coming in and now we have time
to get more team members in.

So pretty good leverage.

mukul: Interesting.

So do you have a call
with all of your team?

Like once a week or everyday
or something like that?

swapnil: So

mukul: you're

swapnil: recently we used
to have of God every day.

This week we hide.

Cause I think the last
one we hired on vans.

mukul: Steve.

swapnil: And we didn't need any
call on Thursday and Friday.

So now I feel that we are getting
into a less frequent cadence.

So we'll have one syncope on Monday,
but I think from five per week, we

are moving to a lesser frequency now.

And the ideal thing for me would
be just have one single a week.

So that is not styling for the next week.

mukul: Yeah.

totally.

swapnil: Yeah.

Yeah.

So maybe let me say that they are
remodeled, but I think it's very

different when you say the boat first
and when you actually do a sync load,

if you're doing if everyone has to do
their work in like a set time window,

then, maybe it's not a first off.

mukul: Yeah.

Yeah, definitely best scene the more tag.

We actually don't follow that too,
because we are just two people.

So whenever are to discuss
something, we'll just call each

other and get, get it done.

But like the best remote act has
or feel is creating loom videos.

Like for example, you have to,
you want to discuss something.

You want to share something.

Just create a loom video
and share it with them.

it?

I have, and I actually loved that
software because like, for example,

if there is any customer requests,
customer support request comes in and

they say that, Hey, trying to do this,
but I'm not able to configure it.

Then I can just create a loom video,
a quick 30 minute, 32nd, one minute

long video where I can just explain,
you should do this, you should do that.

Doing a screenshot.

And it just instantly, it
creates an impression that, oh,

it gets all like very easily.

Like you don't have to write
think, and write like a steps.

You'll just create a room video, share it.

And that said, a really.

So, yeah, I mean, loom videos, I
think it's a great way to have that.

I think remote kind of situation
make making it to work.

swapnil: Yeah, I think
that makes a lot of sense.

We have not,

mukul: no,

swapnil: Done a lot of loom video
still long, but I'm definitely

taking this as a takeaway and we'll
start doing that from next week.

The one thing they absolutely love about.

plan is that it puts a five minute limit
and that sort of forces you to tell all

of the important things like, of course,
you can ramble, you can go on and on.

You can talk for 15 minutes,
but I don't think most of the

times we have anything the.

mukul: the.

cooler

swapnil: Of the thing, the goal
is just like a few minutes long.

So I love that it has a very
decent free time limit in this.

mukul: Yeah.

I also like if someone is sending
label more than than like five minute

video, then I think it should not be
a video, then it should be a color.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to listen
like five minute video of someone

swapnil: Yeah, you had to
go and it doesn't work.

Right.

That's why the completion rate
of books is a low content.

Hey, like, what do you watch?

Is it recorded content?

mukul: Yeah.

I mean, exactly like that is like
watching a YouTube tutorial or

YouTube explanation of something.

But, but like short 32nd,
one minute, like for example,

standard up to standup updates.

I always feel why, why,
why do you have to.

It's like, have to sit in a queue.

And then when, by when everyone starts
giving updates and stuff, like instead

of digest, write a quick note or
make a loom video, screen-share what

exactly you're doing in that site?

It's on-site but I would say like,
it's like a very I would say.

I'll be off looking at things.

Maybe you actually have a team things
B will be little bit different.

Like there will be other
variables into play.

So it might like even the
long video sounds perfect.

It might not be possible to do so.

So I'm not at that stage, I would say so
that I would come where I can say to say

that this is like the best thing possible.

swapnil: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let me try this out and report back on
this house or did this in a team setting.

But it also is it related to the.

Tasks an individual is doing so
if they have a lot of context then

they can then with it independently.

They can do.

I think the startup rates
are mostly for BMS, right?

First masters who want to keep a tab
on where does a particular thing Stein.

And if they want to suggest or help out
if, if there are any blockers, but at

the same time, the more I think about it,
the more just I'm thinking out loud here.

I don't see.

Bye everyone has do the
standup dates at the same time.

Like you said, everyone comes.

And it's so good.

And they do that.

I think when one thing I can
find a pro is that it's a ritual.

So it's a or, , the
teams coming together.

So it's a good chance to drive by.

Yeah.

If everyone gives it at their own
time you don't have that sort of

bookmark comradery or maybe you can't

go deep into what someone is doing.

So for example, if that person is giving
an update right now, you can ask better

questions and probe deeper a bit, whatever
it is, I think you'll most likely.

It's just be like, ah, I've seen this.

Okay.

Skip it.

Again, it's like an accordion view, right?

I don't know, but yeah.

I don't know how that, how
will that work in action?

We do district out.

mukul: yeah, totally.

Like there will be no backend for it's
like if someone needs giving just their

updates and that's totally if there
is something they need to ask in that

case yeah, I guess if there is some
back and forth, then X thread might be

fine, but yeah, I mean, I guess that's
all that is solved by the standard.

But yeah, I mean, I have one question
do I saw when to eat recently?

So I just wanted to get
your thoughts on it.

So there was this wine to eat
where a person says something

like while starting out.

your career, you should optimize
your learning and not your salary.

And what do you think, like,
what is your opinion on this?

swapnil: I think I agree a hundred
percent along with the nuance that

you have your expenses sorted out.

So it's not like you are
you got running four things.

And you're not able to make ends meet
then at that point, of course, the salad

bar, the money bag matters a lot more.

But once you feel that an agreement
in the salary's not going to increase

your quality of life significantly
it's, again like a play long-term game.

Your learnings.

Early on will help a lot in
the later stages of equity.

And that is exactly the
fact that we are on, right.

The sort of believing that
otherwise Saudis are good only.

So

mukul: Yeah, no, no.

Yeah, I think.

I'd started after a certain point of time
to, to make sense, but I'm just saying

again, when you're starting out, like,
for example, now when you're starting

out, like you do not have enough savings.

I'm very conflicted with
like what exactly to go with.

So why I'm a little bit confused.

Like for example, after savings
event, you have the luxury of time.

Everything is good.

Like the luxury of time and money.

Like for example, you have savings
enough savings, like six months down,

six months savings, seven months
savings, then you have options.

But now for example, you do not have.

swapnil: I was going to come
to the same file optionality.

So like if I was starting out and
like, since you're mentioning it

specifically, just starting out, I
would want to get the optionality

and a good starting point for that is
you get a good salary at the start.

So you have savings.

You have.

mukul: you have

swapnil: Safety net to fall back on.

It's not that you're
living month to month.

It's not that something
let's say I do workplace.

Something goes back either between
your, between you and your manager,

something goes bad or the startup or the
company shuts down, whatever happens.

You know, you, if you don't have that
cushion, you will sort of panic very

quickly and then you will not have

you're not to be a good state of mind to
make that decision or whatever machine

that you make at that particular moment.

It's also, I think I read somewhere
on a similar line of salt, which

is, let's say you're investing your
money in stocks or somewhere, right?

Oh, very important part here is to keep
a certain portion of it in liquid state.

You'll have cash available at all points.

If not, what you'll end up doing
is whenever you don't have anybody

to see, you're sort of losing
out on a bunch of things because

you're all exerted that basically you
don't have that optionality to either.

Sell or hold the market point, which
might be fluctuating and it will give you

some fanning attacks at the same time.

If there's a good opportunity let's
say you find something really awesome.

If you don't have the money, you
can't really capitalize on that.

So it's the same thing with the
early career career aspects.

If let's say your savings are not,
you don't have the savings cushion

in place, then let's say you come
across as really, really awesome.

Unfortunately, but this being less, then
you can't really switch to that because

you don't have that push in place.

I feel having that cushion would
be my first priority in life.

Again, like everything everyone's
scanned person, but for me it would be.

Get that question first and
increase your optionality

funnel for all your later years.

I think that is how I think about it.

What are your thoughts?

mukul: Yeah.

same.

The tweet when I saw it, I was
like, oh, this is something I

don't like when people glorify.

Learning part so that they
can get away with paying less.

And actually to be honest I mean, at
that point your mind is not clear, so

you will go with whatever you have.

But now when I think like it's
best to have that financial secure.

That will make you a less desperate,
like for example, if things are not

going right, you can say no, otherwise
you do not have an option to say no.

So this is like for the pros part and
for the coin, like, for example, if you

want to think, like, when I say that
you want to optimize for learnings, If

you're just optimizing for learning.

I don't think it makes sense for
if it, if it is giving higher

returns, then it's worth the risk.

for example, if you're taking like
10 X risks, should be X returns.

At least if it is not paying 10 X returns,
then it's not at all worth it to risk it.

Like in terms of learning in terms
of it's like a very practical thing.

For example, if.

Starting up then you're taking
up that risk because if it works

out, you'll get the 10 X data.

But if you're joining it as an
employee at a very low salary,

just imagine even if the startup
10, if you are not going to 10 X.

So in that sense, I would say this late.

So when I see a few years back I used
to think, oh, I should prioritize

companies, things and stuff, but
you should prioritize yourself.

I should prioritize me.

I should prioritize my other things.

I should get the financial security first,
like and then when we have that option,

then go learn whatever you want to learn.

Go spend whatever you want to spend.

I think that I that's how I feel
like post optimize for earnings and

then optimize for learning spot.

swapnil: Yeah, just that I think
being mindful of it helps that.

Buttons, you start earning, of course,
that is a valid part as well, but

don't change your goal too often.

Like if you want to maybe select
something that, you know, this

is the number then after that you
want to optimize on your learnings.

But when you actually these there,
and then you increase that number,

I think then you are in now.

mukul: know.

swapnil: And less loop
it's like, so yesterday.

mukul: I actually so there is some number,
I think number might be different in

everybody's life, where they are staying
and what their expenses are, but there

is some number in everyone's life.

If they cross it, money and
happiness, doesn't go to.

Like, for example, if they're below
that the money and happiness correlate,

like for example, money makes you happy
because you have things to spend on and

you are relaxed and all those things.

But after a certain point, like, for
example, if you have money to spend

on then money and happiness, don't
go read it because you know, like

things as ordered, but the things
that makes you happy are different.

it's like one very important variable.

In that case, I guess you would strive
for more like a different thing.

Like will strive for things
that makes you happy.

in that, in your case, you, were getting
paid like you will financially secure.

But then you choose after that, like
Jerry, or after that point, you choose

to do something makes you happy.

It's like you optimize for your financial
first and then you optimized for your

happiness first as something like that.

swapnil: Yeah, go.

It's like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Once you sort of soldier on one level,
then only then you have a good platform

to explore the next one otherwise.

So I see it as a ladder.

So once you have a good step, good
foothold on your previous steps,

then only to reach for the next one.

If you don't do it.

There will be like a small
disturbance and you list on your head.

mukul: Yeah.

swapnil: So having a stable
platform is super important.

mukul: Definitely.

Definitely.

Yeah.

So one question I had was like, what
is your relationship with money?

So, I mean do you have goal in mind
that you want to earn this much?

Or do you like into savings a lot?

Like what exactly do you think
when you think about money?

I

swapnil: Some did some calculations
and I think it's something, something

,
mukul: I,

swapnil: I got acquitted as like,
I am optimizing for the passive

income of thousand dollars a month.

That is my gutted and goal in
mind, you can change, retain, but

I feel that at least for the next
few years, this is something.

That works out well.

And again, like you said, after the point,
money does not correlate with happiness.

This is my book about which of course, if
you have money, you can spend more money.

I there are no shortages of me
it's to spend money, but this is

like a good enough number, which
supports the lifestyle that I want.

I'm the and yeah, all
the rest of the things.

Yeah.

About whatever I do.

Do you get on the hiring
side or the community site?

All of them are like sort of aim towards
reaching dieting and passive income.

Yeah.

mukul: Yeah.

Fantastic.

Sounds interesting.

For me yeah, I never thought
of it like a passive income.

It should be like, should have like
some fixed set number of facet income.

swapnil: You're not free to do anything.

It was born.

Of course you didn't choose to
do the same things that you're

doing now, but what do we do now?

At least there is some aspect
of financials there, head, that,

Hey, these are the actions that
really give the most died away.

And these are the actions
that will generate revenue.

So you have those things in place, right.

Versus if you have the
passive income balloting set.

mukul: set.

up, Then

swapnil: in the truest sense
you are just choosing or the

problems that you want to work on.

I'm pretty sure that, I will
be working on some problem.

I'm pretty sure you will also
I don't think we can just sit

idle for a long period of time.

I've tried that as well
to get back to bite.

I got bored pretty quick, so I'm
pretty sure that I'll be working on

something, but it could be our great.

mukul: eight.

So basically

swapnil: Then it will,

mukul: it will,

swapnil: this is something that
I realized when I was solo, I was

learning music production of us back.

And I did some writing courses as well.

So as soon as I thought of
making money from those things,

it started becoming boring.

I lost interest pretty quickly in them.

And so yeah, the current
aim is to return a place.

If I want to explore some artistic
hobbies and things, I have zero

motivation or a zero alienation
of making any money from it.

So I can truly enjoy it just for
the sake of preventing or not.

Anything else.

mukul: Hmm.

That's interesting.

Yeah, totally makes sense for
yeah, for me, I would say it's I

personally don't have an exact number.

Definitely.

I just want to have that option,
like you're financially secure,

for example, if you want to do
something, you had option to do it.

They, you don't have that restriction.

You don't have that thing holding
back that, Hey it's costing me

this much, then I shouldn't do it.

Or I should wait for the
same, all those things.

So Actually doing it as a different
thing, but having an option

to do it as a different thing.

So,

swapnil: Oh,

mukul: yeah, I personally feel like in
other than like financial security part

that having an option to do their thing
is something which I feel I've worn.

Like that's what I feel
when I think about.

I mean, I know that because I feel so
for example, come from a middle-class

background, so whatever requirements
are have, it's not like I'm going to

spend on very super luxurious things.

And then something like that.

So it's just late for you.

Don't believe when, if you want to
do something, if you're going to

do like a stupid thing, even if we
wanted to spend on some stupid thing,

should have an option to do it.

It's like that's where I would like
and, and with respect to work part, I

feel that's how we are like and stuff.

Like we like to do things.

And everybody likes to do something.

And so it's just that, like, for
example, even if something happens,

even if we sell our apps right now, I
know that there's no point in selling

and stuff because the next day we'll
work on something else next week.

So there's no point in running
because currently work is play and.

What's the point in I mean, if we are
enjoying the process and what to the

point of like sending for extra money,
like, because it's, not going to make

like, exactly like a difference because
the difference has already happened.

The stress is already gone.

a when you now think of
something you'd not yet.

In most of the cases, you do not think
that, Hey, This is stopping me from

doing this or something like that.

Right.

So, you mentioned right now, the
levels and stuff, I feel like

in that levels slowly moving up.

And like, I personally like it,
that the optimization function, it's

not like now maximizing the money.

It's like maximizing what you like
to do and maximize the happiness.

Because the money part will
increase slowly and gradually.

So that per se, I feel like that has
happened with me in last one, two years.

And I liked that part.

I love that part actually.

swapnil: This is pretty cool.

So like this point cost like
almost the secretary fee to meet.

We've got like formation
bias, chamber, whatever.

I don't think you understand the
direction, whatever you are thinking.

I can relate just like.

mukul: Yeah.

mean, it really, for example, when you
it's like when you're discussing with

someone and they had the same thing,
then you realize like you're not the

only one who's thinking it alone.

swapnil: Yeah.

mukul: this direction.

Yeah.

do totally makes sense.

swapnil: So both group.

mukul: So, yeah, I have wanted to
do this segment when we started

like episode, episode one.

I don't understand.

I would, I wanted to do the segment.

I look at this.

So I wanted to do this segment
when we started this podcast.

So it's like a section where we.

Just say one thing, which we like in
the last week, it can be, and episode

of some TV series, it can be an app.

It can be a podcast.

It can be a book.

It can be a paragraph of book.

It can be anything.

It can be anything you
like in last one week.

So, yeah, go.

swapnil: yeah, I go with
a newsletter it's called.

They're not really changes.

I know.

I think that is the most
unique newsletter subscribe.

And it's pretty hard to explain it.

Okay.

But we'll try to explain it.

It's like the newsletter will
literally have 10 to 15 words.

That is it.

It was just like one sentence.

And it's very different from
any newsletter you might have

seen before.

And that is like a unique hook
that, that gets me to open it every

time it gets my inbox and it will
have like, no, some Flipboard 10%.

mukul: to say,

swapnil: So, yeah, it's,
, you're not really strangers.

I later come in and said,

mukul: So what's on it.

Like it's like they don't have,
like, they just have like few words.

They don't have like whole email
content or big newsletter or stuff.

It's like 20 words, 30

swapnil: yeah, yeah.

mukul: And was the topic

swapnil: need that?

We need third is also.

A bit it's a very small things
have been words and it's mostly

like, just like a nice thing.

They say something nice.

And I don't know how to explain this,
this, this, to it and this, like,

I'm telling you the suspect to it.

You'll find out what I'm talking about.

It's pretty nice,

mukul: Okay.

There's a, it's like a secret, like
the topic I just subscribed to it like

this and they said that they send me,
they'll send me some confirmation link.

Okay.

Yeah.

Might've figured this
out, but interesting.

interesting.

So when, when does it get,
like, when do you get that?

Like, w it's like every Monday, every
Tuesday, every Thursday, something that,

swapnil: No, no.

It's, it's like, I don't
think we get twice tastes.

I mean, I'm also you
saying you subscribe to it.

So I don't know the actual frequency bike.

Yeah.

I've been recommending this
was there to do a lot of.

It's like the word newsletter.

There's no product that
they're selling this.

I think it's just like, you
feel nice after you landed.

mukul: interesting

swapnil: It feels like
a friend checking in.

That's the best way I can describe it.

mukul: Yeah.

I feel that will be good for.

The good dopamine hits.

definitely taking

swapnil: Yep.

Yeah.

What about what busy
Arctic commendation for.

mukul: Hm.

So the saintly, I didn't ask
spoken about this earlier too, but

recently final season of like.

Like a started and it's legal
on third, fourth episode.

And that is one I read demand.

it's the animal, which is catching
up to the story now and this animal,

this animal and this whole story.

I mean, I mean, it, it is so good.

Like.

No, the whole story and whole,
but like whole thing so much.

And I think it's so deep.

I wish like more people watch it
so that they will realize that,

oh, this is like such a masterpiece
kind of thing, because it's.

for.

example, when I say like, there
are just some giant monsters, 15

humans that kind of takes away what
that series is, and it is So much

more, it is so much more it's on.

I mean, when you, you watch that you will
get like a totally different perspective.

They have, whenever was that series.

I, I feel I got a totally different
perspective of how are like, say,

for example, how wars are like,
like how for example, you cannot say

that that person is enemy in war.

Like something I'll just
give you like a brief, just.

This series, what it does, it will
tell you a story from HEDA point

of view, there is a hero in it.

So will tell you a story from his point
of view, from the start, and they will

show you all the bad things happen.

All the things that I was, which
is happening to him, and you will

start sympathizing with them.

You will start feeling, oh, is sort
on what is happening with them?

Everything that they I mean, everything
that is happening to them is wrong.

Something like that.

And then in a second or third
switches the narrative in such

a way that they show that.

Hero site is actually a wrong and
the whole world is against them.

like, for example, a zoom late,
you were born in Nazi, Germany.

You were born in 1945.

You didn't travel, you
didn't know anything outside.

And you were just born into
that world and you were fighting

for the Nazi Germany part.

You will think that you are doing right.

the thing that you are doing everything
in your lake to save your family,

to say whatever you think is right.

But the whole world is against you.

Whole world wants to beat you then.

Then who do you think is right?

Like there's also a nice
relation between like, and it

has like amazing foreshadowing.

So like for example, happens in the
future, the author has foreshadowed

it in like old episodes somehow.

it's like, the depth that manga
has, it's totally mind blowing.

When someone says that they are like evil,
like you cannot say oh, it's like that

this must be some kind of thought process
or brainwashing they have been through.

I they're, they come in which
totally summarizes the author,

brainwashes you in a way that makes
you think that whole world is your.

And can brainwash and that's the most
beautiful and amazing part of it.

Like brainwashes you to think that, so
the whole then motivation of the hero

is to destroy the whole world and author
brainwashes you to think that this is.

And that's like so beautiful.

And that's like so scary that can
get brainwashed at any point of

time, even if you think like are.

So I would say, like, for example,
if you're saying like, we are

literally, we have studied this much,
we have studied that much, but you

can still get brainwashed plate.

You can still get a con into
believing that this idea is true.

As a whole it might not be true.

I'm not sure I'm doing the best
job in explaining the whole,

swapnil: So actually I'll talk
about it in a second quick question.

When does the narrative switch
happen in terms of episode number?

mukul: oh yeah.

So number it happens after 30,
it happens after third season.

swapnil: Heard season.

Oh my God.

Got it.

Okay.

Really pretty far away.

So I actually had started

mukul: I got died.

swapnil: Up to you as bad.

And I've watched the first couple
of episodes when it paid very goody.

And if there was a lot of I dunno,
there's a lot of bad stuff in Walden.

I sort of lifted and never figured out.

mukul: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's dark, it's dark, but it's
story is so beautiful that it's late.

For example, you have to let it
grow for some time and then it will.

Mm.

like then once you see back, like
what exactly that meant, and you will

think, oh, this is like a meeting.

This is mind blowing.

So has like I think a lot of
thinking and effort, he has put the

foundation for like first two seasons.

And after that from third
season is totally different.

It's like, and I tell you, like,
once you watch it, right, like when

you was three season and when you
watch four season Yeah, In every

episode, you will think like an irony,
like li it's like what they did.

like, for example, and you see it, right.

Like wrong is happening with me.

And then after sometime you do
the same wrong thing with them.

So it's like, for example, the model.

You will have so many moral
dilemmas the time after their day.

It's so good.

It will question your, I mean,
if you're watching that intensely

and seriously, obviously, like
watching that very seriously.

And so moral dilemma and moral, it
will question that morality and I that.

It's not like black and white.

It's totally.

Nothing is nothing is
wrong at some point next.

What will you choose?

swapnil: speed is like
pretty good writing.

So I'm definitely pulling
it up on my watch list.

I will give it a try again.

mukul: yeah, definitely.

I would say vagina holding because
it grows you will feel that you're

starting it slow, but it's like a base.

So when.

A few things happen.

Everything will start clicking in and
as a story, whole story to beautiful.

So, I mean, it's very deep, so yeah, I
mean, I want more people to watch it,

to just to see like what a beautiful
wild land story that it escalated

because I, to be honest, was it last.

And I had the same thought,
why would I watch it?

It's just an anime where like big giants
out and humans and something like that.

But they never watched it.

I was like, no, no, it's
Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord.

More than that.

She'll Yeah.

I mean differently if you, if it was
there let me know how it goes for you.

swapnil: Now you're using
three and two about it.

So I'm definitely going to discuss this.

mukul: definitely.

Definitely.

Yeah.

There is one, like one friend
of mine who is into it as me.

So he's like, he, he, he,
so we share the same things.

Like, for example, whenever something
interesting happens in the episode,

or he has read the manga, so he knows
like, what exactly is going to happen.

So then he shares like a lot of
foreshadowing with me that oh,

Or third has foreshadowed this.

like thing, which is in chapter
100, he has foreshadowed

it in like chapter 5, 6, 7.

So it's like very cool.

Like I love it.

Yeah, seen yeah, I have so
didn't want to call it.

swapnil: I'm pretty sold.

Yes.

So I think have this,
this is a good CPA books.

If you have voice that I contacted
for your review and the status at

hand that is going to look forward
and yeah, I am pretty convinced, but.

We never hurts to see
more reviews coming in.

Yeah, that's all about today's episode.

See you next time until then stay
curious and don't forget to have fun.